Stefany Nieto from Mojo

Sam: Stefany, welcome to Beyond the Inbox. Thank you so much for taking the time to join us.

Stefany: Thank you so much for having me. I’m so excited to chat with you.

Sam: Me too. Can you tell us about Mojo’s origin story and how it came to be?

Stefany: For sure.

Mojo is our product, and Gwella is the parent company.

All of this really started because my team and I wanted to bring accessible psychedelics to communities anywhere and everywhere.

We’re big fans of psychedelics and the benefits they can provide to people, so we wanted to figure out a way to bring accessible psychedelics to the market.

The question was: How can you mirror the effects and benefits of psilocybin and psychedelics without actually going underground?

Gwella, the parent company, is where we talk mostly about psychedelics. That’s where we provide trip-support tools, a dosage calculator, and a mushroom wiki.

Mojo is the product where we provide the benefits of a microdose without the illegal ingredients.

Mojo provides energy, focus, mental clarity, and a mood lift completely legally.

We’re on Amazon, we’re in Urban Outfitters, and we’re in a number of other places.

Sam: I have so many follow-up questions.

For listeners who might not be familiar, can you explain the concept of microdosing and how it relates to Mojo’s products?

Stefany: For sure.

Microdosing itself is ingesting typically a tenth of what you would take for a regular trip or a macro trip—there are so many different ways to describe it.

With a traditional psychedelic experience, it might last six to eight hours. Colors are really bright, and you might see the clouds moving in funny or unusual ways. That’s a traditional trip.

Microdosing is not intended to give you that.

The point of microdosing is to boost your energy, focus, creativity, and mood without giving you a hallucinogenic experience.

When you traditionally microdose with psilocybin, which is the active compound in what people might consider magic mushrooms, you may still notice that colors look a little brighter.

It won’t give you a full trip. Nothing will be waving around or anything like that, but I do find that colors can look a little brighter.

With Mojo, we aimed to replicate that experience without the psilocybin—the ingredient that makes those types of substances illegal.

With Mojo, you still get the energy, focus, mental clarity, and mood lift that you would associate with a traditional microdose, but without the illegal ingredient.

It also doesn’t have hallucinogenic effects, so colors aren’t going to look brighter in the way they might with a psilocybin microdose.

That’s how they compare.

Sam: Can you tell me more about what inspired you and the other founders of Mojo to create this line of mushroom-infused gummies?

I’m so curious to hear more.

Stefany: I think we all have our own paths that led us to psychedelics.

For me personally, I’ve always been in the wellness space.

Before Gwella and Mojo, I used to build greenhouses in the Arctic and work on food sovereignty.

Wellness is something I’m really passionate about and interested in.

Once the pandemic hit, I got to a place where I didn’t really know who I was anymore.

I wasn’t sure whether I wanted to continue down the path I had been on with my previous company, and I realized I needed to figure out what my passions were.

Who was I beyond my company?

Funny enough, psychedelics helped me get there.

I had also been a psychedelic advocate underground for quite a long time. I was your resident mushroom girl among my friends and family.

It made sense for me at the time to move into psychedelics.

I wasn’t necessarily sure what I wanted to do. I just wanted to bring the joy of psychedelics to more people. That was the baseline.

Then I met my co-founders, who had the same idea.

We knew we wanted to make a product, but we didn’t know exactly what it would be.

Mojo’s original base formula was a formula one of my co-founders had used when he was at university as a natural Adderall-type option.

We dug up that formula and then tweaked it for about six to eight months.

We tested different ways to mirror the effects of a traditional microdose, knowing that we couldn’t necessarily mirror the effects of a macro dose or a regular trip.

We didn’t want to do that. We wanted to stay within the legal framework.

It took a lot of research and development and testing on ourselves to figure out how we could best mirror those benefits.

That’s how we arrived at Mojo.

Sam: It feels like the public perception of psychedelics—or whatever term you want to use—has changed so much over the past 10 years.

You hear so much about it now on mainstream podcasts, and I believe Johns Hopkins University is doing studies on it.

It seems like it’s developing a much more positive public perception.

Why do you think that is? What has changed over the past few years?

Stefany: That’s a great question.

I think the pandemic really helped spur that interest.

I like to say that, when people couldn’t travel abroad, they traveled within.

Whether that meant psychedelic trips or simply exploring functional mushrooms, adaptogens, and nootropics, those types of buzzwords really took off during the pandemic as people dug more deeply into their wellness.

How did they survive the pandemic, whether in terms of their mental health or physical health?

Mushrooms really emerged as a star during that period.

As a result, I think there has been a positive focus on what they can potentially do for people’s mental and physical wellness.

A lot of people who, like me, had advocated for psychedelics before the pandemic saw the opportunity to say, “Yes, I stand behind this.”

People might have had a preconceived notion that psychedelics were for a particular type of person, or that they were simply drugs and therefore bad.

Then you had people in respected roles or positions of leadership coming out and saying they supported psychedelics.

All of a sudden, the space had more positive associations.

I think that led to a resurgence in research, companies, startups, and services.

I’m sure it began before the pandemic, but the pandemic really put a spotlight on it.

Sam: It’s so interesting.

I really feel like the narrative has changed because, when I was at school, we were taught that drugs were bad and that, if you did them, all these terrible things would happen.

Now you see highly successful people talking about microdosing, mushrooms, and everything in between.

It has changed the narrative quite a lot, hasn’t it?

Stefany: It absolutely has.

I understand the fear.

I grew up in a Catholic Spanish household. Drugs were the devil. If I smoked cannabis, I would die. That was one hundred percent how I was raised.

I didn’t even try cannabis until I was around 18 or 19 because I was so scared of any type of drug.

Now people are having more open conversations.

I think part of that is also that alcohol has developed a bad reputation.

More studies have come out about alcohol being terrible for your liver. That has always been the case, but as people dug more deeply into wellness, they started asking what effect these vices had on their bodies.

How do I treat my body more like a temple?

That really grew during and after the pandemic.

At the same time, I think there’s another shift happening now where people are becoming “wellnessed out.”

There’s a pendulum swing. It went very heavily toward wellness for a while, and now it may be coming back.

I think there could be a resurgence in alcohol brands and other vices that people had stepped away from.

There’s always a phase, but I think that’s what helped spur the change.

Sam: I want to shift into Mojo’s marketing strategy.

How has it evolved over time, and what has been most successful?

Stefany: That’s a great question because we’ve gone through a variety of phases.

We’ve changed who we were targeting as a team and as a product, which platforms we focused on, and where we put our eggs.

We’re a four-person company trying to figure out where to spend our advertising and customer-acquisition budgets.

I can tell you both what worked and what didn’t work.

TikTok is the answer to both.

At the beginning, TikTok was a fantastic channel for us.

We grew quickly and went viral a few times. It was phenomenal.

But social-media platforms update their community guidelines all the time.

Things we could say before—such as talking about microdosing and mushrooms—suddenly became a no-go.

We’ve had to go back and change our content, update our scopes, find different types of influencers and knowledgeable people in the space, and carefully manage what they should mention about Mojo.

It’s a constant tug-of-war to determine what we can and can’t say.

We repeatedly update content or risk being shadow-banned or deactivated.

TikTok has therefore been both one of the best and one of the most difficult channels.

Getting people to try the product has also worked well.

We’ve run two campaigns where we gave away free products while quantities lasted.

That was awesome. We got a lot of returning customers from those activations.

They’re obviously expensive, but they can work well.

Sam: Who are you targeting?

We’ve talked about how public perception has changed.

Are you targeting people who already advocate for microdosing, or people who aren’t yet aware of that type of solution?

How are you addressing those audiences in your advertising and marketing?

Stefany: We get a little of both.

Some people come to us not because they care about microdosing at all, but because they want energy, focus, and a mood lift.

Then we have people who are curious about psychedelics but are afraid to dip their toes into illegal products. They want similar benefits, and that’s how they find us.

We speak to both audiences primarily through benefits.

We focus on the benefits associated with microdosing rather than only focusing on microdosing itself.

When we focus only on the word “microdosing,” we get a catch-22.

On one side, we attract people who are interested in psychedelic microdosing but don’t want to obtain a psychedelic product.

On the other side, we get people who say, “You aren’t a real psychedelic product,” and that backlash is frustrating.

We try to be transparent about who we are.

Yes, we’re called Mojo Microdose, but that’s because we’re inspired by psychedelics and microdosing.

We focus on the benefits we can provide for day-to-day living.

Sam: I’m on the website now, and one thing that really stands out is the photography.

The pictures of the products are beautiful.

When somebody lands on the website for the first time, I can see that they can join the email list.

Are you nudging first-time visitors to join the list so you can educate them and then pitch a product?

What does the typical journey look like?

Stefany: People tend to take one of two main paths, although there are a few variations.

Some people go to our quiz, which helps them determine which type of Mojo is right for them.

We have two strengths, so customers often want help figuring that out.

The quiz also helps bring them onto our email list.

From there, we segment people based on their use cases—why they came to us—and send them educational content that reflects those interests.

Other people go directly to the shop.

They read through the directions and the ingredients.

Those customers usually come to us because they already understand the benefits.

They want to know what is behind the curtain: the ingredient profile, quantities, milligrams, and all the details.

They tend to be part of the biohacking crowd. They know what they want, and they’re there to get it.

So you have the people who don’t fully know what they want and therefore take the quiz or join the newsletter and wait before purchasing.

Then you have the biohackers who understand everything and go straight to buying or subscribing.

Sam: When someone joins the email list, where does subscription come into the sales cycle?

Is it easier to sell a new customer a one-time product first and then move them into a subscription?

Stefany: It’s much easier to sell the product as a one-time purchase, especially when the product is called a microdose.

If you aren’t experienced with microdosing and you aren’t a biohacker, you typically want a one-time trial.

That’s also why we created the quiz. It helps us understand customers’ tolerances so they order the right product and have a positive experience.

We’re revising our subscription flows and opt-in strategy because subscription is something we want to move toward.

At the moment, people who are knowledgeable and more embedded in the biohacking world tend to go directly to a subscription.

But we’re still a smaller brand, and we had only been in the market for around a year and a half at the time of this interview.

We were still earning customers’ trust.

A lot of what we do leads people toward a one-time trial first.

Then we follow up to see how they can build Mojo into a routine, how the product is working for them, and whether they have any feedback.

We take feedback and concerns about the website, product, or customer journey and make adjustments accordingly.

For now, one-time purchases are easier, but we’re working to increase subscription.

Sam: What other strategies are working well for acquiring new customers?

Stefany: Micro-influencers.

People love hearing from friends and family, or from people who feel like friends and family.

That’s a big one.

We’re also going heavily into retail.

The more times people see us in stores they trust, the more likely they are to purchase, whether they buy in the store or later purchase online.

We’re also exploring how we can become more involved in community events beyond simply sponsoring them with products.

How can we be there in person and talk about the product?

As a consumer, I love meeting founders who are passionate about the things they built.

We want to be present in person more often.

Sam: You and I spoke a few weeks before recording this episode, and you shared a story that really emphasized the importance of community and trust.

You told me about a customer who had been scammed.

Can you tell that story and explain how you helped?

Stefany: Every once in a while, I jump into customer success.

I like handling tickets and seeing how things are going. I’ve become a little obsessed with it.

Recently, I received a support ticket from someone who had seen Mojo on TikTok or Instagram.

It has happened on both platforms.

Scammers pretend to be underground psychedelic dealers and claim that they sell Mojo.

I don’t know whether they say it’s Mojo with psilocybin.

If you search for Mojo, we’re very clear that there are no illegal ingredients in our product.

But these people copy our content.

They download our videos and static images and create new pages with names very similar to ours.

Then they post their own content using our assets.

Customers see the posts or ads and reach out.

After one conversation, I received screenshots.

The scammer might say, “You can buy 10 packs of Mojo for $100. Send the money through Cash App to this account, and we’ll ship it.”

People fall for it.

They send hundreds of dollars and then receive nothing.

Eventually, they contact us and say, “I think I was scammed. I don’t think this was your account.”

It’s awful.

As a founder, part of me thinks, “I’m flattered that you think our product is cool enough to use in a scam,” but it’s obviously terrible for the customer.

Some customers have also been threatened by scammers.

The scammer may say, “You were trying to buy something illegal. I’ll tell the police in your area, and I know where you live.”

We’re trying to take down the scammers one at a time.

Using the reporting processes on Instagram and TikTok is painful.

You send screenshots and follow up repeatedly before the platforms take action.

I understand that they don’t want to remove someone’s account without evidence, but while that process is happening, the scammer keeps posting and reaching people who should have become part of our community.

Whenever this happens, either I or our customer-success manager handles it.

We send the customer some free Mojo.

It’s essentially, “You were scammed, but we’ll send you some Mojo for your trouble. We hope you enjoy it.”

We try to provide a good experience despite what they’ve gone through.

It’s wild that this has happened three or four times.

Sam: That must be exhausting when you’re such a small team.

Stefany: Yes.

Any founder on a small team wears a billion hats.

You switch from reviewing end-of-year financials to customer success and dealing with a scam.

Then you remember that you’re launching in a retail store and need to deliver assets within the next hour.

You constantly juggle a million things at once.

Sam: We’ve talked about marketing.

I want to shift into positioning.

How does Mojo differentiate itself from other mushroom-based wellness products?

Stefany: Our competitors will often have one product for energy, one for focus, and another for mood or mood regulation.

I have a naturopath, and beside my desk I have a variety of supplements I’m supposed to take every day.

Adding another three supplements for energy, focus, and mood was a no-go for us.

We wanted to create something convenient.

You can grab it and go, put it in your backpack or purse, and take it during the day.

You can also take it at night if you want to be more social at a party or event.

That’s what we created with Mojo.

It’s in a gummy format and comes in a Mylar bag you can carry with you.

You don’t have to mix it into anything.

It also tastes good.

That’s a major difference compared with products where the active ingredient profile overwhelms the flavor.

Those products either taste awful or are put into capsules, and then you feel like you’re 90 years old taking your eightieth supplement of the day.

The other important difference is that Mojo combines all the benefits in one product instead of separating them into different products.

I understand the profitability opportunity in splitting benefits across multiple products.

But whenever we create a product, we ask whether we would use it ourselves.

Would we actually become routine customers?

If we feel as though we’re being cheated, we don’t want to replicate that experience for our customers and community.

Convenience, taste, and form factor are key ways we differentiate.

Sam: I listened to another interview where you talked about the difference between using the term “microdose” and saying “brain boosting” when marketing Mojo.

Is copywriting something you have to think about a lot?

Stefany: One hundred percent.

I love copywriting. I love reading copy. It’s a passion of mine.

We have to find a different way—probably at least once a month—to keep up with community guidelines and describe the benefits of our product.

For example, “mood” can be restricted on many platforms.

You may not be allowed to say “mood regulation.”

I’ve taken to describing Mojo as helping create the best day of your week.

I talk about self-fulfillment and joy because those things lead to feelings of positivity without directly using the word “mood.”

We’ve become relatively good at it, but there are still hiccups.

When the rules change, we have to go back to the drawing board.

We constantly have to find new ways to describe ourselves.

Sam: What are some of the challenges you’re facing right now?

Is there anything in marketing or sales that you’re working particularly hard on this year?

Stefany: Retail expansion is one of our biggest goals.

We’re working on widening our footprint and increasing the number of doors we’re in.

We had just launched in Urban Outfitters.

I applied online and went through all the traditional channels, but I also messaged every Urban Outfitters buyer I could find on LinkedIn.

I told them, “Please look at my product. I swear you’ll like it.”

We take unconventional routes toward retail growth whenever we can.

The other challenge is figuring out what’s next.

What product innovations do we want to launch?

We have a few things in the pipeline for the rest of the year that we’re excited about.

Beyond simply launching new products, we’re thinking about which partnerships we can earn to make those launches even bigger and splashier.

Our products perform well in places such as California, where there’s a large sober-curious movement.

Part of me wishes I lived there so that, when I’m out and see someone who might be a good face for Mojo, I could simply say hello.

But I’m in Toronto, so that doesn’t happen as often.

The question is how we talk about the product, make launches bigger, and get into people’s feeds regardless of which platforms they use, while still managing everything with a small team.

A third challenge is increasing our Amazon rating.

Amazon is the Wild West.

We had an issue where Amazon mislabeled one of our package configurations.

People who ordered two packs of Mojo sometimes received only one.

Then they left negative reviews because they didn’t receive what they had ordered.

Our rating ended up at around 3.7, and I checked it almost every day because I wanted us to reach 4.0.

That was another major focus.

Sam: What are some ways you plan to improve it?

Stefany: I’m still figuring that out.

Anyone listening who has best practices is welcome to reach out.

We tried Amazon Vine. It was all right, but it wasn’t great.

We considered doing what some companies do and putting a paper insert inside the product.

But, as a consumer, I would be grossed out by a paper insert inside an edible product.

It didn’t fit with the experience.

For now, we reach out to people who purchase on Amazon and ask them to contact us first if they have any problems.

We’re happy to provide the best customer service possible rather than have them leave a negative review.

But it’s tough.

Amazon heavily restricts how brands can communicate with customers and how they can improve ratings.

We’re out there fighting for our lives.

Sam: Best of luck with that, Stefany.

This has been a fascinating conversation.

Where can listeners learn more about Mojo?

Stefany: They can go to mojo.shop. That’s our official website.

I’m also open to speaking with people directly, so feel free to reach out to me on social media and say hello.

Sam: Perfect. We’ll put the links in the show notes, as always.

Stefany, thanks again for taking the time to join us, and all the best in the future with Mojo.

Stefany: Thank you so much.