Parker Olson from Forij

Sam: Parker, I've got to be honest. I struggled to know how to prepare for this interview. You and I were talking in the pre-interview, and you were dropping so many stories that left me hanging. I really struggled to know what direction to take this conversation.

I think I want to start by asking you quite simply: what is Forij, and who is it for?

Parker: Yeah, good question. At Forij, we make food products. We make foods.

Our current leading slogan is “nutrition for your noggin.” We make a meal-replacement bar, and we make bags of granola. Both of those are fortified with a proprietary mushroom mix that provides essential daily brain nutrients and an excellent source of vitamin D.

They're all made from whole-food ingredients, they're low in sugar, and they're relatively low in carbs.

Sam: The mushroom component is where I want to take this conversation. I think the best way to lead into it is to go back to the experiment you ran before starting the company. You spent 18 months trying different nutritional regimens, and one of those involved functional mushrooms. Can you tell me about that?

Parker: Yeah. I spent 18 months in a row trying different nutritional regimens—or diets, whatever you want to call them. Every 30 days, I did a different nutritional regimen.

During one of those months, I supplemented with different functional mushrooms that I had been reading and learning about. My background is in neuroscience, and I had learned about psychedelic mushrooms in the past, so I had some familiarity with the broader space.

That was the month when I felt my best. I got into the research and felt really compelled by a lot of the interesting work happening in the space. I hadn't realized how many benefits different mushrooms could provide.

It felt like there was a really interesting use case for mushrooms to help address health concerns shared by hundreds of millions of people across the globe.

Sam: As someone who doesn't know a lot about mushrooms, what do you think is the gateway benefit that makes someone like me look at the brand and say, “Hey, this is for me. I want to make a purchase”?

Parker: That's a great question. Looking specifically at our brand and the mushroom mix we focus on, there are tons of different mushrooms, and that can be part of the challenge. People don't necessarily know where to start.

Our hero mushroom, which you may have seen around, is a lion's mane extract. We source it from and partner with one of the most well-respected lion's mane producers in the world. We also have all our finished products tested for the micronutrients that are important in the mushroom.

Lion's mane helps stimulate nerve growth factor in the brain. What that means is that, when the active phytonutrients in lion's mane are present, your brain can produce more nerve growth factor.

Nerve growth factor is what your neurons—your brain cells and the cells of your central and peripheral nervous systems—feed on to grow, repair themselves, and make additional connections.

When you think about how your brain grows and what it needs to feed on, it needs normal nutrition, of course. But when nerve growth factor is present, your neural cells can grow and form connections at a more rapid rate.

Sam: You complete this 30-day challenge and experience those benefits. What happens between that point and starting the company? What was the next step?

Parker: I went through all those different months and reflected on the experience. I naturally continued to do more research on mushrooms.

The next thing I knew, I had joined the Puget Sound Mycological Society, which is one of the largest mushroom clubs in the US. I sat on the board there for two years, got into mushroom foraging, and reignited my passion for the space.

I wanted to get mushrooms into my own diet in a really seamless way, so I started putting them into oatmeal and other things I was already consuming. I brought them into the office and let people try them.

Then I was at a startup conference, and an angel investor said, “Hey, this is really smart. Send me your pitch deck.” From then on, I thought, “Well, I should probably put a brand together, start selling this thing, and get it into other people's hands. There's clearly interest here.”

Sam: There are so many fascinating marketing strategies behind the brand. The first one I want you to talk about is something you told me in the pre-interview: you drove a branded van and slept in grocery-store parking lots. Can you tell me more about that?

Parker: Absolutely. COVID happened, and all of a sudden there was this influx of everyone communicating over email. It became really challenging to get hold of key decision-makers over email.

For a brand like ours, which was trying to sell products in different grocery stores, that became difficult. We started asking, “Where can we find these people where nobody else is looking?”

That meant moving back to meeting people in person. I thought, “How crazy would it be if I drove down to California to meet this one buyer?” There was one particular buyer I was trying to meet.

Then I thought, “I've always wanted to live out of a van. Why don't I buy an old camper van, live in it, brand it with Forij marketing, and drive around the country? I can sleep in grocery-store parking lots and driveways while meeting these people.”

That's what I did. I drove around the country, opened up a lot of wholesale distribution, got into grocery stores, ran a lot of pop-up events, and met different consumers.

It was a way to stand out while there was so much noise across other channels. When everyone else zigged, we really tried to zag, if you will. I feel like that's common marketing language, but it describes what we did.

Sam: How do you scale something like that? What is the current status of that marketing strategy?

Parker: It's definitely not for the faint of heart, and it's not something I could do forever. I burned out. Part of me probably has some PTSD from sleeping in so many grocery-store parking lots and being woken up by street cleaners.

I met somebody while I was living on the road who was really excited about what we were doing, and he also spent several months in the van. He's not currently in it, but we're bringing on an intern this summer. Part of his role will be doing three-to-five-day van excursions, running pop-up events, and checking on stores.

It will probably become more of a seasonal strategy than anything else.

Sam: It's very common for founders to experience anxiety about bringing a product to market. When you tell me a story like that, I think you must have had such a strong vision for the brand to make that type of commitment.

Parker: You have to be all in and full of belief.

When you go that far, people take note. It's a great way to gain attention from the right people because a grocery-store buyer or customer may have a thousand brands in front of them.

If no other founder is giving up their normal way of living for a year, driving around, and sleeping in rough conditions, that stands out. I found that it laid the groundwork for really strong human-to-human connections.

Sam: What were some of the early wins in the beginning?

Parker: We were selling locally and saw some really good traction. We also received early belief from a couple of angel investors who helped us get off the ground, bring in some initial talent, and put the brand together.

One of the major retail distributors put us into its emerging-brand portfolio, which consisted of only 10 brands across a portfolio of around 10,000. They highlighted us as one of their top emerging brands, and we gained a lot of exposure through that.

Another early win came from the story I mentioned. Before moving into the van, I had lived in a tent for two years. We ran some advertisements around that story, and people really resonated with them. The advertising performed extremely well.

We continued to receive great feedback on the product, and people would say, “I can't believe you did that to launch this product.” That story helped people discover the product and decide to try it.

Sam: Can you share more about that story? You were living in a tent while you were building the brand?

Parker: Yeah. At one point, half my bed had been overtaken by boxes of packaged products and 50-pound bags of oats. I needed to create more space.

I wasn't going to move the products outside, and I didn't want to pay for additional space. I thought, “I've slept in a tent before. Why can't I move outside?”

I didn't really have an end date in mind, and I ended up staying out there for two years.

Sam: I'm on the website now, and I can see that you have a store locator. Did you start in retail and then move to direct-to-consumer, or was it the other way around?

Parker: We started in a few retailers around Seattle and then moved into direct-to-consumer and built that side of the business out.

Once we gained access to distribution through the larger distributor and had the van opportunity, that's when I hit the road and really started banging on doors, as they say.

Sam: I want to dig into some of the online marketing strategies. What does the buyer journey look like when a new visitor lands on your website? Do they sign up for email first, make a first purchase, or immediately join a subscription?

Parker: We've worked hard to build our SEO through the blog, so we get anywhere from around 30,000 to 60,000 unique visitors to the blog each month.

A lot of people start there and learn about the subject. Through retargeting or by coming back independently, they visit the website again, look at the product pages, and then make a purchase.

We typically don't see people subscribe until their second or third purchase. Subscription hasn't been a huge part of the business so far, at least with the granola SKUs.

The meal-bar SKUs may be a little different because they lend themselves more naturally to a daily consumption pattern.

Sam: I'm on the blog now, and I have some questions about it. I entered the domain into Ahrefs before we started talking and saw that you're ranking for a lot of interesting recipe-related keywords.

Can you tell me about your content-marketing strategy and the role those recipes play?

Parker: We're definitely going after long-tail keywords.

When we decided to pursue this strategy, we did exploratory research and interviews. We saw that there weren't major competitors with huge footholds in the space around different mushrooms and the questions people had about them. It looked like a good place for us to play and build authority.

Recipes are one part of that. They don't necessarily convert as well as some of the informational content, but they drive more traffic.

It's a balance between attracting people to the site so we can retarget them later and attracting people who already have more purchase intent.

Sam: What are some of the ways you're using email—both email campaigns and automated workflows?

Parker: Campaigns have worked well for us in the past. I've unfortunately fallen out of the rhythm recently, but we're preparing to pick it back up. Starting in June, we're bringing back something like a “Founder's Friday.”

We keep the brand personal by sharing stories about what's happening around the company—the good, the bad, and the ugly.

On the campaign-flow side, and touching on SMS as well, we've created a 30-day Brain Game challenge. It can be activated over email, although we find most people activate it through SMS.

We offer it for free with certain purchases. Every day, the customer receives a brain game by text or email. It's a way to maintain daily engagement and make the brand part of their life.

Sam: What kind of feedback are you getting? SMS seems to be very hit-or-miss based on conversations I've had. How is it working for you?

Parker: The feedback on the Brain Games has been positive.

For genuine direct-response marketing, I'm less convinced that SMS is creating a huge amount of incremental demand. A lot of the people who buy after receiving a text may have been going to purchase anyway.

But for creating a useful daily interaction through the Brain Games and keeping people engaged with the brand, it has worked well.

Sam: What about after someone makes one purchase? Do you have automations that upsell them to the subscription? Where does subscription fit into the customer lifecycle?

Parker: We try to focus on subscription after two purchases. We've found that pushing a subscription too early can have a negative connotation or be perceived negatively.

We try to think longer term with online customers. We have a higher-end product, and it's a little more niche.

What we've learned with the granola is that someone may buy our product while still buying other granolas. They like ours, but it may be part of a broader rotation.

We want them to buy it independently a couple of times. Then we can make a softer subscription offer and say, “It looks like you're buying this once a month or once every six weeks. You're probably mixing it in with other granolas. We could simply put this on a subscription for you.”

Sam: I'm on the product page now, and I always love a strong guarantee. You have a trademarked “30-Day Clarity Commitment.” Can you tell me more about it?

Parker: Yeah. It's probably a light trademark, if I'm being completely honest, but you can technically trademark a statement like that.

We want people to feel comfortable and confident about what we stand for. We're trying to provide essential brain nutrients through these products.

We haven't received any returns based on that guarantee. We continue to see many positive reviews from customers who say they experience cognitive benefits.

Trying to remain unbiased, whether that's a placebo effect or a real effect, people report feeling a difference, and they appreciate having the product in their daily nutritional regimen.

Sam: I think it's refreshing to read a satisfaction guarantee that isn't simply copied and pasted.

For our listeners, it says: “Love your snacks and feel your brain clarity improve in 30 days, or get 100 percent of your money back—no strings attached and no exceptions.” I love that.

Parker: Yeah, and we stand behind it too.

Sam: I want to return to some of these marketing strategies. You told me a story in our pre-interview involving your floating home on a lake and a potential marketing opportunity that came from it. Can you tell me more about that?

Parker: Are you referring to the tours?

Sam: Yes.

Parker: Okay. I feel blessed to live in a lovely floating home in Seattle.

My roommates arranged a cool deal with a tour company that brings people through the house. It will happen a couple of times a day and could bring as many as 650 people through the home each month.

We're asking how we can use that to drive exposure for Forij and potentially other brands.

We're looking at offering visitors a sample along with a QR code, Venmo option, or Amazon checkout right there. Someone can pick up a sample while they're emotionally engaged in the experience, try the product, and immediately purchase it.

They may want to feel connected to the person or the home they're visiting, so we're exploring different ways to engage this existing audience coming through my personal home. We can say, “This entrepreneur lives and works right here.”

For other brand owners listening, we're also considering opportunities to include other branded items. Local Pacific Northwest brands would probably make the most sense, but there's definitely an opportunity there.

Sam: One of the things that stands out when I speak to you, Parker, is how inventive and creative your marketing strategies are.

Where do these ideas come from? Are you influenced by a particular person or source? I'm curious about how you generate them.

Parker: I probably don't have a great answer. I think I pride myself on doing things differently.

For example, today I'm around hour 63 of a fast. I decided about a week ago that I was going to do it after one of my roommates completed a fast a couple of weeks earlier.

My initial reaction was, “That's crazy.” Then I asked myself, “Why do I believe that?”

Maintaining that mentality—trying new and different things and pushing myself outside the box—lends itself to thinking in unconventional ways.

I don't want to enter the same Facebook paid-ad black box that everybody else is in. I ask how we can reach people in a more authentic and cost-efficient way, probably with a higher conversion rate.

It comes back to asking, “Where is nobody else going?” and then trying those tactics and strategies.

Sam: What are some limiting beliefs you've overcome during the last couple of years as an entrepreneur?

Parker: I don't know whether this is exactly a limiting belief, but I frequently find myself not thinking big enough or far enough into the future.

I can fall into a belief that says, “You're living this now, but it's going to fail,” or, “This isn't real.” It's the classic impostor-syndrome feeling that you don't belong where you are.

I wish I had thought bigger and longer term earlier.

Another limiting belief involves capabilities and skills you don't yet understand. When you don't understand something, you assume it's extremely difficult, highly technical, or something you simply can't do.

I often have to check myself and say, “Take the first step. Start learning Adobe Illustrator so you can make some of these changes yourself.”

It took me forever to take that first step because I thought it would be so technically challenging. Now, after perhaps 10 hours of learning spread across six months, I'm fairly proficient in Adobe Illustrator.

Sam: There are so many directions I could take that, but I'm mindful of the time.

Where do you see the brand in the next five years? Do you want it to become a nine-figure brand, or do you want to keep it relatively small? Where do you see it going?

Parker: That's a good question. I'd like to build it into a strong, profitable brand and then determine what to do from there.

I don't think this is necessarily my forever brand, and I don't think I'll sit here operating it forever. But I would love to see it exist sustainably, whether I'm directly involved or not.

Ideally, we can get it to a healthy, profitable place—let's say around $10 million in top-line revenue—and then I can largely step away and bring in an operator to run the business.

I could still be involved when needed or wanted, but I would also have the space to work on other projects.

Sam: I meant to ask earlier: how many people are on the team right now?

Parker: We have a team of about three and a half.

There's me. Amy runs operations and really holds down the back end; she's awesome. Jared is still running around doing a lot of our sales. Then we work with a part-time food scientist who helps with product innovation.

Sam: I wanted to ask about working with a virtual assistant. You told me in our pre-interview that you have a VA reaching out to people about podcasts you may be able to appear on.

Do you think that's a good marketing strategy for founders who want to build their brand and increase their visibility?

Parker: I think it can be. First, you have to be living a life or doing things that are worth writing or talking about.

I come back to living in a tent for two years and living on the road. Those stories were useful for attracting immediate attention, but they also became interesting stories that we could continue sharing and promoting.

Not every founder wants to be out there doing wild things so people will talk about them, and that's completely fair. Trying to build awareness through podcasts and similar channels isn't necessarily for everyone.

But when the founder has a real story and is comfortable sharing it, a VA can help identify relevant shows and create opportunities to tell that story at scale.

Sam: I love asking founders about community. What does community mean to you, and how do you use it in your marketing?

Parker: To me, community exists when people who aren't organizing it are engaging with one another meaningfully and frequently.

There was a period around 2021 or 2022 when everybody seemed to be talking about community. We wanted to think of ways to create a real community and a genuine connection to the brand that felt authentic and personalized.

Part of our branding involves fun little creatures called Foragers. They're little blob-like characters, and every Forager you see on our packaging, website, or merchandise was created by a real customer.

We want customers to enjoy the products and then create their own Forager for free. Their Forager can become part of the brand and appear in different places. Creating one can also give them a discount on products.

In that sense, the customer genuinely becomes part of the brand and has a special tie to it. We can point to a particular Forager and say, “That's your Forager. That's the character you designed.”

Customers can choose the colour and select from different options to create a personalized, branded Forager.

Sam: I love how you involve customers. I think it's a completely new level of personalization that I hadn't considered before.

Parker: Thanks. I appreciate that.

Sam: We've talked a little about your vision. What obstacles stand in the way, and how are you planning to overcome them as you move toward where you want the brand to be?

Parker: Growth is such an interesting thing to consider. Fast-paced growth requires capital, and the market right now is challenging. These next 12 months are going to be brutal.

I've been reading stories on LinkedIn almost daily about brands going under and partners of brands going under. You hear about a company spending $40,000 on a marketing partnership, only for the marketing partner to go out of business without returning the money.

For us, the focus is on finding growth through channels that are more profitable and cash-flow positive at an earlier stage.

We've definitely shifted our strategy around how we market and where we put our dollars. We're trying to prioritize longevity rather than short-term growth.

Sam: Parker, I told you when we first spoke that you are quite possibly one of the most interesting people I've ever spoken to.

This conversation has been enlightening, and I've learned so much from speaking with you. Where can our listeners go to learn more about Forij?

Parker: Our website is Forij.co—that's F-O-R-I-J dot C-O.

I'm also very active on LinkedIn. We're on the usual social platforms, but LinkedIn is probably the best place to find me personally. Look me up, give me a follow, and connect with me.

Our website is the best place to find more information about our products, the brand, and what we're doing.

Sam: Perfect. We'll put all the links in the show notes.

Parker, thank you again for taking the time to join us today. All the best with everything, and good luck with the fasting as well.

Parker: Thanks, Sam. It was really nice to connect.