Michelle Lai-Saun Chu from KONOS

Sam: Michelle, welcome to Beyond the Inbox. Thank you so much for taking the time to join us.

Michelle: Thanks for having me, Sam. I’m really excited to be here.

Sam: Can you tell us a little bit about your background and how you started Kono’s Kitchen?

Michelle: Sure.

I started Kono’s Kitchen after being inspired by my dog, Kono, who I adopted in 2018. It has been a while now.

I was switching him to a raw diet around 2019, and it was very overwhelming—the amount of research you have to do and making sure he has a balanced meal.

Around the same time, I had been thinking about a business idea. I was deciding between either doggy daycare or dog treats.

Given that the pandemic hit in 2020, I think it was a good idea that I didn’t choose doggy daycare because that brick-and-mortar business would have been shut down almost immediately.

I went with freeze-dried raw dog treats.

Kono’s Kitchen is a brand of freeze-dried raw treats. They’re great for training or as meal toppers.

I wanted to provide a less intimidating and more accessible way for people to feed their dogs healthier diets or healthier treats without having to transition fully to a raw diet, even if that might be their goal farther down the line.

The treats give them a way to start.

Sam: I have so many questions about the brand, but I want to touch on something I found while researching this episode.

You took a class trip to the Guide Dogs for the Blind facility when you were younger.

How did that shape your passion for dogs?

Michelle: Wow, you really dug deep for that one. I’m impressed.

Growing up, I was always a dog lover. I was obsessed with dogs as a kid, so it’s really cool how that has come full circle now.

I grew up in San Francisco, and Guide Dogs for the Blind is based in the Bay Area.

When I was in elementary school, we went on a field trip there.

They train several types of dogs, but they’re mainly golden retrievers and Labradors.

We got to walk through the facility, take a tour, see all the different puppies, and play with them.

I remember coming home, and my mom tells this story too. My teachers told her I was obsessed with the dogs and didn’t want to leave.

That passion for dogs grew with me, along with a passion for empowering dog owners.

That’s a big part of my brand as well.

Sam: I find it fascinating when there are these inflection points along a founder’s journey.

I have another one I wanted to ask you about.

After college, you moved to Beijing without knowing any Mandarin and lived there for five years while working at various startups.

How did your experience doing social-media management for those startups later help you market Kono’s Kitchen?

Michelle: That was my first foray into marketing.

I did a lot of social-media marketing while I was there.

It gave me a taste of how much of an impact content and social media can have on a startup or small business.

That has definitely carried over into my current business, where content is a big part of my strategy—mainly on Instagram.

I’m also trying to focus more on TikTok, although who knows what’s going to happen with that now.

It really comes down to putting out valuable content.

Whenever I publish something, I ask myself: Is this valuable to my audience? Am I bringing value? Am I teaching them something? Is this easily digestible?

That last question is also very important in this day and age.

Sam: I have a lot of questions about how you’re marketing the brand, but first, I want to return to something we discussed during our pre-interview.

I enjoyed hearing about your story with Kono.

Before that conversation, I wasn’t aware of reactive behavior.

Can you explain what it is and how it influenced your decision to start a community for what you call imperfect pet parents?

Michelle: Absolutely. I really love that you asked that question.

My definition of reactivity is overstimulation, and it’s something we see so often.

It can be anything from a small dog that is insecure and yaps or barks at bikes and skateboards going by.

In Kono’s case, it’s also fear-related. He is triggered by larger dogs.

When he sees them at a distance that is too close, he will sometimes bark or growl to get them out of his space.

It’s something I think we see a lot but don’t always recognize as reactivity.

When that first started happening and Kono began exhibiting those behaviors, I felt isolated and alone.

There was this feeling that I couldn’t walk down the street because he might bark and growl, and that was embarrassing.

I worried that other people would think, “What’s wrong with you? Why can’t you train your dog to behave?”

I’ve become really passionate about helping other people not feel that way.

I found an online community that helped me feel less alone.

From day one, when I started Kono’s Kitchen, a big part of my mission was to build a community for imperfect pet parents.

On my social media and business accounts, I show the challenges I face with Kono and the things we go through that demonstrate we aren’t perfect either.

There is so much on social media that makes you feel bad because you think that’s the level you should be at, what you should be striving for, or where you should already be.

The reality is that sometimes it takes a long time to get there.

Depending on genetics, you also may not reach exactly where you want to be with your dog.

Those are some of the things I’ve learned over the past few years that I want to pass along and use to help other people.

Sam: What are some of the ways you’re helping people through your content?

You mentioned social media, and I know you recently started a blog as well.

Can you say more about that?

Michelle: I’ve always been a writer and have always loved writing.

It felt natural to write for my own blog and draw from my own experiences.

Through the brand, I share not only the challenges of having a reactive dog, training with him, and working him through his triggers, but also the challenges of being a small-business owner.

There are many, many challenges.

It isn’t an easy road.

One thing that personally makes it difficult is seeing only the positive side of things and seeing only the wins.

I think it’s important to share the lows of running a business too.

There’s a lot people can learn from that.

There is also relief and solace in hearing that someone else is going through the same things, even when that person may appear much more successful than you think you are.

Sam: What role does community play in your marketing strategy, particularly in terms of customer retention?

Michelle: It’s huge.

Honestly, it has always come naturally to me.

It wasn’t necessarily a strategic decision where I thought, “I need to build a community so I can sell my treats and build the brand.”

As I said, from day one, I wanted to build this imperfect-pet-parent community.

It has always organically been part of my quote-unquote strategy.

From a numbers standpoint, that has been huge, even if it wasn’t necessarily the intention.

My customer-return rate has been pretty high.

I would say I average anywhere between a 40 and 50 percent customer-return rate.

A big part of that is having a community that not only loves the products, but is also a thousand percent behind the mission, what I’m trying to do, and the community I’m trying to build.

Sam: Can you talk about the Discord community you started recently and how it’s working for you?

Michelle: Discord is something I started pretty recently—either this year or at the end of last year.

It was a way for members of my community to connect with one another.

A lot of my content is on Instagram, and that’s where most of my efforts have been focused since I launched.

The challenge is that people can go to your page, see your post, and comment or reply to one another, but there isn’t really an ongoing conversation.

I wanted an online space where people could connect with other imperfect dog parents, share resources, and support one another while they’re going through different challenges.

For example, we have people whose dogs are struggling with separation anxiety.

I don’t have much firsthand experience with that through Kono, but other people in my community do.

Giving them the ability to connect and share tips about what they did to get through those difficult periods is beautiful to see.

Sam: Can you discuss how your marketing strategy has evolved over time?

What worked well in the beginning, and what is working well for you now?

Michelle: Historically, email marketing has worked well for me.

For me, it’s more about consistency.

That has been a challenge as a small-business owner and a team of one.

I do product, sales, marketing, and content creation.

Luckily, I now have a couple of teams of reps who help me with some content creation, feedback, and similar things.

Between running Discord and everything else, email marketing has fallen behind.

Even writing blog posts has been difficult because it takes so much time.

But email is definitely something I’m trying to prioritize this year because it has worked for me in the past.

It’s a great way for me to connect individually with customers, especially through personalization and segmenting customers into different groups, such as returning customers and VIP customers.

That has worked in the past and is something I really want to focus on.

Social media is interesting because it comes in waves.

For me, it’s really about testing content because things are changing so much across social media and the algorithms are constantly evolving.

It’s difficult to keep on top of it or try to game it.

My approach is to build a platform where people can come and learn different information if they want to.

I want to create content that could function as evergreen material on my Instagram profile instead of trying only to make something go viral, because you never know when that will happen.

Sam: That is very true.

I’ve been posting on LinkedIn for 102 days, and I went viral once, so I guess that’s about a one-percent return rate.

I’m not entirely sure of the math, but it is very difficult to go viral on social media.

I do think showing up every day and putting something out is important.

Michelle: For sure.

In the past, I really got caught up in being a perfectionist about things and not wanting to publish content unless it was perfect or close to perfect.

One thing I’ve learned, especially over the past year, is to just do it.

Put out the content, throw it out there, move on, keep doing it, and keep showing up.

I believe consistency is what will push you forward.

Sam: Where are most of your customers coming from right now?

Is it a mixture of word of mouth and social media?

What does that look like?

Michelle: I would say it’s a mixture of word of mouth and social media.

I also do in-person events, so I get a lot of customers through those.

Customers tell me all the time that their dogs go crazy for the treats and that they’ll definitely purchase again.

Simply being out there helps with brand awareness.

It also gives me the opportunity to sample the treats with dogs so that their owners can come back later.

When I’m at those events, I also try to promote the Discord community.

The brand isn’t only about dog treats or products.

It’s truly about the space and community I’m building, and I have a big vision for its future.

Sam: I spoke to a founder recently in the apparel industry who started a paid community in addition to his free community.

The paid community offered all kinds of perks.

Is that something you might be interested in trying in the future?

Michelle: What’s funny is that I originally launched on Vibely, which has since been acquired by Kajabi.

When I switched from Vibely to Discord, I had previously offered both a paid tier and a free tier.

I think there was value in the paid tier.

It included access to trainer chats through the relationships I had organically built with dog trainers in the space.

There was value there.

But the more I think about building the community, the more I realize that accessibility is really important to me.

For now, I want to start with a free community and make sure many more people have access to the information.

Dog training is still an area that isn’t accessible for a lot of people, especially those in lower-income areas.

In this community, people can speak with other dog parents who are passionate about training their dogs and living well with them.

They still gain access to information that can be extremely helpful without having to pay a trainer.

For now, I’m going to keep it as a free community, and we’ll see where it goes from there.

Sam: When someone lands on your website for the first time and browses around, are you trying to nudge that visitor toward a one-time purchase, a subscription, or joining your email flow?

What does the journey look like?

Michelle: My primary goal would be the email flow, and after that, probably the subscription.

Capturing email addresses is extremely important.

I have a popup on my homepage that captures emails by offering 10 percent off a first purchase.

That’s something I started doing fairly early on, so I’ve been able to collect emails there.

I also try to collect emails at in-person events, whether by offering event discounts or something else.

I have a lot of dog toys, so I can offer someone a free dog toy if they sign up for email.

To me, email is the most important piece.

From there, the next goal is recurring subscriptions.

Sam: I think list building at in-person events is such an underrated strategy.

A friend of mine used to run events and had perfected the process of collecting email addresses.

He even found that instructing people to write in uppercase made it easier when he manually added the addresses to his CRM after the event.

It’s a powerful strategy that more ecommerce brands could leverage.

Michelle: For sure.

You’d be surprised by how easily people will share their email addresses.

You don’t necessarily have to offer anything.

As a smaller business, you can simply tell them, “I’m trying to grow my email list. I really want to be able to connect with you through this medium and channel. Would you be willing to share your email address?”

I’ve tried that, and many people are very open to it.

In my newsletters, I share more personal stories about training with Kono, tips I come across, and podcast episodes that really resonated with me.

I try to make sure my emails bring value too.

Sam: What are some of the workflows in your email system?

I assume you have a welcome flow. What else do you have?

Michelle: I have a welcome flow and an abandoned-cart flow, which is extremely important.

I’ve also set up a lot of templates.

I’m obsessed with systems, templates, and making everything automated and as efficient as possible.

Very early on—possibly before I even launched—I designed templates.

I use Canva for a lot of the designs and created reusable templates.

For example, I have a sales template and a newsletter template, so I can drop in the content, send it, and be ready to go.

Those are the main flows.

I can definitely work on building more.

I’ve also segmented my list a little.

Because I do many local events, I want to make sure I’m not sending event messages to people who live on the East Coast or in the South and saying, “I’m going to be at this event in Los Angeles. I hope you can make it.”

Sam: Segmentation is something more brands should be doing, although it can be intimidating.

Even segmenting by geolocation, as you mentioned, is an important best practice.

Michelle: For sure.

Sam: We’ve talked about some of the ups and downs of entrepreneurship, and I want to focus on one of the ups.

I was reading about your story and saw that, within two months of launching the brand, you had your first celebrity customer.

Tell me about that.

Michelle: My first celebrity customer, if I’m remembering correctly, was Sir Patrick Stewart’s wife, Sunny Ozell.

At around the four-month mark, Antoni from Queer Eye purchased from me.

But I think Sunny was officially the first at around two months.

She had heard about me because, in the beginning, I sent a lot of treats to influencers.

It’s important to mention that I had built very organic relationships with many of them.

For some of these people, they had become friends, and we would talk about personal things.

That won’t always be the case with every influencer you contact, but I think it creates a stronger foundation.

You’re not simply reaching out to someone random and saying, “Can I send you my treats, and then can you post about them?”

I had sent treats to someone in New York.

Because Sunny is from New York or was based there at the time, she saw the treats and went to my site to purchase them.

The reason I knew it was her was that I already followed her—not as Sir Patrick Stewart’s wife, but as a singer-songwriter.

I immediately recognized her name, and that was extremely exciting.

Sam: That must have felt incredibly validating so early in your journey—to have someone of that status purchase from you.

Michelle: It really was.

It was wild because it happened after I sent the treats to that particular person, they posted about them, and Sunny saw the post.

It wasn’t an intended outcome.

It wasn’t as though I had said, “I need to make sure this celebrity gets my treats.”

It simply happened.

The lesson for me is that you can’t always force or plan those things.

As we said earlier, it’s about showing up consistently and putting yourself out there.

That’s something I think I’m pretty good at, and it has definitely been to my advantage.

Don’t be afraid to shoot your shot.

Sam: You mentioned influencers, and I have a quote from another interview.

You said:

“I want to continue supporting and uplifting women of color. I want to be intentional about who I partner with and use my platform to highlight small businesses I believe in. As a woman of color and the daughter of immigrants, this has been important to me from day one of my company, and it will continue to be a cornerstone of our values.”

Tell me more about that.

Michelle: It’s extremely important to me to be an example and use my platform, as small as it may be.

I’m not big potatoes.

I don’t even know whether that’s a phrase. “Small potatoes” is a phrase, but I guess “big potatoes” is now one too.

It has always been important to me to be intentional about who I partner with whenever possible.

A lot of the people I partner with are friends whose businesses I believe in.

Even on my business social media, I’m close to a couple of other small businesses in Los Angeles that also make treats.

I post about what they’re doing and their launches.

I’ve always been very passionate about the fact that there is room for everyone.

Collaboration over competition helps everyone win.

I think that’s the best way for all of us to succeed.

During my first year after launching, I created holiday treat boxes, and every other item in the box came from a woman-of-color-owned small business.

I’ve also partnered with people for giveaways.

In the welcome packages I send to my reps, I try to include other women-of-color-owned businesses that people may not have heard of.

I think that’s a good way to uplift and support them.

Sam: I spoke to a founder recently who told me she does something very similar.

I love the idea of building a community of founders and other businesses.

It really is a game of abundance where everyone receives value and everybody rises together.

Michelle: It is.

There are so many of us doing this for the first time who have no idea what we’re doing.

It’s difficult, especially as a solopreneur, to go through everything alone.

Being able to lean on other small-business owners in your community is invaluable.

You can ask them about their experiences or talk about the things that are challenging.

It’s the same with reactive-dog parents.

Having someone else who has gone through the same thing can help you feel much less alone.

There’s also a lot of inspiration to take from people in those communities.

I’m inspired every day by these women of color, and that’s something I want to celebrate in everything I do with my brand.

Sam: We’ve talked about the past and the present.

Where is the brand going?

Where do you see Kono’s Kitchen in the next couple of years?

Michelle: That is a very good question because I’m at a pivotal point right now, so I can’t reveal too much.

In general, when I first launched Kono’s Kitchen, the focus was more on nutrition, feeding healthier diets, and offering healthier treats.

As my passion for training with Kono—and for dog training and training knowledge in general—grew over the years, the brand naturally pivoted more in that direction.

That worked out because I intentionally sized the treats to be perfect for training.

I see the brand moving toward becoming a training-lifestyle brand within that entire ecosystem.

I want not only to empower people who currently train with their dogs, but also to inspire people who don’t typically train with their dogs to start.

I believe that leads to a more fulfilled dog, a better life with your dog, and more happiness overall.

Sam: I couldn’t agree more, and I think that’s a great place to start wrapping up.

Michelle, where can listeners learn more about Kono’s Kitchen?

Michelle: I’m online at konoskitchen.com.

I’m also on Instagram at @itskonoskitchen.

The Discord link is in my Instagram bio, so Instagram is probably the best place.

You can email me at [email protected].

If you send a message on Instagram, it goes directly to me, so you’re speaking with me personally.

I love talking about dogs and dog training, so I’m happy to answer questions or discuss anything related to that.

I’m not currently a trainer, although I’m beginning to shadow some trainers to learn more and build my own knowledge.

I’m always happy to talk about all things dogs.

Sam: Perfect. We’ll put all those links in the show notes.

Michelle, thank you again for taking the time to join us.

I learned a lot, and I want to wish you all the best in the future with Kono’s Kitchen and, of course, Kono.

Michelle: Thank you so much, Sam. This was really great. Thanks a lot.